The Evolution of Radiography Training with Jennifer Clayton from Linn-Benton Community College

Episode Overview

Episode Topic: In this episode of Skeleton Crew – The Rad Tech Show, we delve into the crucial topic of transitioning into radiology education. Jennifer Clayton, the Director of the Diagnostic Imaging Program at Linn-Benton Community College, shares her personal journey from technologist to educator, and the implications for those considering a similar career path. The discussion extends beyond her personal experiences, touching on broader changes within the radiology field and how educational roles are adapting in response to evolving technologies and industry demands.

Lessons You’ll Learn: Listeners will gain a deep understanding of the nuances involved in moving from a clinical role to an educational one within the radiology sector. Jennifer Clayton offers practical advice on navigating career transitions, highlights the importance of patient communication, and explains the impact of technology on educational practices. Additionally, this episode sheds light on the challenges and rewards of teaching in a high-demand field, preparing listeners for what to expect if they decide to pursue a career in radiology education.

About Our Guests: Jennifer Clayton is a seasoned radiologic technologist and the current Director of the Diagnostic Imaging Program at Linn-Benton Community College in Oregon. With over 14 years of experience in the field, she has a rich background working both as a technologist and an educator. Jennifer’s leadership at Linn-Benton has been instrumental in shaping the curriculum and training methods that respond to the latest industry standards and technology advancements in radiology. Her approach is deeply influenced by her passion for patient care and student success, making her a respected figure in the educational community.

Topics Covered: Throughout the episode, we cover a wide array of topics critical to understanding the field of radiology and the transition into education roles. Discussions include the evolution of radiology technology from CR to DR, the importance of patient-centric communication skills, the financial and personal benefits of a career in radiology, and the necessary qualifications for becoming an educator in this field. Jennifer also touches on the unique challenges and opportunities presented by the cost-recovery model of education funding at community colleges and the importance of adapting educational approaches to keep pace with technological advances.

Our Guest: Jennifer Clayton- Bridging Technology and Teaching in Radiology

Episode Transcript

Jennifer Clayton: Patients don’t like surprises. So, explaining what you’re doing even the why is sometimes behind what you’re doing. It bridges that awkward silence. Because patients I think we take it for granted. First of all, patients don’t want to be there, but they have no sense of the expectation of how the exam is going to go. So when we’re directing them through communication, it makes them feel calm and settled because they know what to expect. They know what to anticipate.

Jennifer Callahan: Welcome to the Skeleton Crew. I’m your host, Jen Callahan, a technologist with ten-plus years of experience. In each episode, we will explore the fast-paced, ever-changing, and suburbs completely crazy field of radiology. We will speak to technologists from all different modalities about their careers and education, the educators and leaders who are shaping the field today, and the business executives whose innovations are paving the future of radiology. This episode is brought to you by xraytechnicianschools.com. If you’re considering a career in X-ray, visit xraytechnicianschools.com to explore schools and to get honest information on career paths, salaries, and degree options.Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Skeleton-Crew. I’m your host, Jen Callahan, and today I have a great guest with me. Her name is Jennifer Clayton. She is joining me from Oregon. Is that correct?

Jennifer Clayton: That’s correct.

Jennifer Callahan: Jennifer Clayton, she’s currently the director of the diagnostic Imaging program at a local community college in Oregon called Linn-Benton. And she comes with us with 14 years of experience as a leader and an educator, working as a technologist. Still, I believe, and we’ll get into that, but also in the education realm. So we’re just going to delve into everything with Jennifer in terms of her currently being the program director, Then we’ll touch on the way that education has changed over the past ten or so years. So I’m really looking forward to our conversation. Jennifer, thank you for being with me.

Jennifer Clayton: Thanks so much for having me on your show, Jen. This is exciting.

Jennifer Callahan: Let’s start off with the education portion. Maybe just explain to me, how you transition from being a technologist into getting into education.

Jennifer Clayton: Well, just a funny story. I graduated from the program that I teach for now, I think I had graduated for probably about 6 or 7 years and had the opportunity to manage the department that I work for. So I was doing the department manager thing Then splitting my time between being a working manager, doing X-rays, and CT. One day I got an email from my former program director and she said, hey, I’m staying with the college, but I’m moving on to something different. Would you be interested in this position? I was like, is this a prank? What’s going on? Because I had no education experience. You know, I’d always worked with students clinically hands-on, but I just loved the program. Being part of the program changed my life, my kids were really little when I went through the program, so it impacted my family, just a positive experience. So when they asked the question, despite my worries or what I felt at the time was my lack of qualifications, I just sat with it and thought, man, that would be such a cool process to be a part of. So I said, yes. I went through the interview process and that was ten years ago, which is crazy how fast it goes by.

Jennifer Callahan: I know, I can’t even believe that right now we’re in the month of April. It’s like a complete sidebar. But I was saying, tell my kids today that today is April 9th. I’m like, oh my God, didn’t April just happen? But so I mean, to your point, time just flies and you don’t even realize it. So when you started with the community college, you didn’t jump right into program director,

Jennifer Clayton: I actually did.

Jennifer Callahan: Did you really? Oh, wow. I wasn’t sure what your journey was through, and I wasn’t sure if you had started as like clinical coordinator or like adjunct professor, but wow, that’s like a huge shift from going from technologists working in the clinical field to then being in charge of all these students and the curriculum and stuff. So kudos to you. That’s a big feat.

Jennifer Clayton: You know, we joke about it now, the faculty and I because it is like on the outside looking in I’m like, it was almost better that I didn’t know any different because I just dove in head first. I also only had my associate’s degree at the time, so while I’m learning to teach, I’m also going back to school to get my advanced degree. So looking back it does seem wild. But I learned so much and I had great mentors. I taught with people who were also x-ray techs, but they had a degree in education, So they helped me to fill the gaps and bring me up to speed pretty quickly. It’s wild when I think back to it, because the administrator role is heavy, Then learning to teach is heavy, but I learned a lot along the way.

Jennifer Callahan: The education requirement to be a director of a program, I know that for you to be a clinical coordinator or possibly be a professor in radiography, it’s just required to have, I think, is it 1 or 2 years of clinical experience Then any type of degree, doesn’t necessarily have to be within radiography. But I’m assuming, as you said, for administrative purposes, is there another degree that’s required?

Jennifer Clayton: You do need to have your master’s to be a program director. But at the time as long as I was enrolled and working towards that goal, there was a time limit for me to achieve that, and complete in that role.

Jennifer Callahan: What’s the master’s in?

Jennifer Clayton: My master’s is actually in business. A lot of people ask me like, well, why did you go into business? When I stepped into this role, the program was what we call cost recovery. So it was like a small business. We didn’t get funds from the college’s general funds. We just only functioned off of our tuition dollars. So I had to manage the program, faculty salaries, equipment, and all of that stuff based on our revenue. And I’d have to market the program right to get the word out to students. I learned a lot with that business degree. And also leadership principles associated with that too.

Jennifer Callahan: Is the program still currently like that, how you say, like you’re functioning just off of the tuition dollars?

Jennifer Clayton: It’s not. It’s been absorbed by the college. If you start making revenue, it’s helpful for the college to have that too.

Jennifer Callahan: Are there many programs that were like that or are currently like that?

Jennifer Clayton: There weren’t a lot. I think when we were doing it, it was diagnostic Imaging and occupational therapy, and I think we had both been absorbed by the college. Now phlebotomy I think is the standalone one. From the college perspective, it’s their way to launch a program and see its viability. On its own, see if it can stand alone on its own. So it doesn’t happen very often. But it’s an interesting model.

Jennifer Callahan: That is an interesting model. But it makes sense. You know, they want to make sure that the program that they’re putting together before I guess they sink a whole lot of money into possibly putting a lab together, energized lab or the faculty and staff to make sure that it’s, as you said, viable and worth. But I feel like the healthcare field is growing so rapidly that it makes sense.

Jennifer Clayton: Especially in Imaging. Our equipment is crazy expensive, and it’s hard for the college to like administrators and the college to have an appreciation for that because they’re not in health care. So they’re like how that x-ray equipment cost how much?

Jennifer Callahan: Even if you can get second refurbished tubes and buses sometimes it’s the Imaging detectors that you know are costly. So since you’ve moved into this spot as director. Have you implemented a good amount of changes? Or maybe coming from the other professors in terms of like changing curriculum or anything over the past ten years as it evolved a good bit?

Jennifer Clayton: I would say so. I mean, I feel like Imaging we grow in dog years. So ten years feels like 30. There are so many changes happening in our field that we just have to adapt a lot from the educational standpoint to help students get up to speed quickly. You know, when I took on the role, man, I had a big case of imposter syndrome because the person that I was replacing was so amazing. She was a pioneer in the field and that pressure of, am I going to fill this role and keep the program’s reputation going? So managing that Then also trying to infuse my ideas. So I think the great thing about time is it gives you that confidence to try different things. Yeah, we’ve done a lot. I think a big priority for us is focusing on the professionalism piece with our students. So prioritizing that as much as the technical piece, just knowing they’re going to serve patients, and I want them to be good colleagues for texts that are working out there too. So we prioritize that, along with adapting to getting through things like film and shielding changes and all those things.

Jennifer Callahan: I think the professional aspect is a good thing to focus on. I feel like it’s almost something that should be incorporated honestly within high school curriculums. I can’t tell you if this might sound completely sidebar or not related, but I think that it is. You have a patient who’s coming in like, for me, I’m always like, hi, my name is Jen. We’re going to be doing X, Y, and Z. I always tell them what I’m doing while they’re doing it. Like, I’m just going to feel down here around your pelvis to make sure that they feel comfortable. But I think that introducing yourself is an important thing. You know, it’s the human thing, to be honest, that you have some type of relationship with this person, that you’re going to be spending the next five to possibly 25 minutes with, again, might not seem related at all, but I can’t stand at this point. I go into a supermarket and a cashier doesn’t even acknowledge that I’m standing in their line. You know what I mean? So I go.

Jennifer Clayton: I think it’s completely related because patients don’t like surprises. So explaining what you’re doing even the why is sometimes behind what you’re doing. It bridges that awkward silence. Because patients I think we take it for granted. First of all, patients don’t want to be there, but they have no sense of the expectation of how the exam is going to go. So when we’re directing them through communication, it makes them feel calm and settled because they know what to expect. They know what to anticipate. So I think that it’s related to that communication piece.

Jennifer Callahan: The introduction thing, I feel like if anything, tell them your name. You know what I mean? You’re asking what their name is, what their birthday is. At least provide them with your name and that you’re going to be doing their study.

Jennifer Clayton: Just showing some enthusiasm for meeting them where they are, like recognizing that they’re coming to see you today and that you’re happy to help them during this time.

Jennifer Callahan: With your program, as you said, so many things have changed within the field. Do you guys have an energized lab within your department? Did we do so? Did that have to change from say, I guess like ten years ago, it was still kind of CR. I think we were still functioning off a CR Then somewhere around, I feel like 2020 DR. I mean, DR was in the field, but I think it was mandated at some point that facilities operating with x-ray equipment had to have DR. So did you guys have to do that transition as well?

Jennifer Clayton: We did and it was tough. We were fortunate to get a new lab in 2017, and that was right at that time when we were asking ourselves, do we want to just discontinue CR? Because that’s where things were going based on those reimbursement rates. So initially we have all digital equipment. So we have two energized rooms. Then we also have a couple of portables. Then we have non-energized units where the students just practice positioning with each other. So for the non-energized units, we did have CR cassettes because they could put them in the bucket and go through that process. But I mean any more detectors are that one size fits all. So even having them go through the process of changing the CR cassettes is becoming obsolete. That’s not even out there. So at this point, we’re just primarily digital. But we also have to teach the components. So because it’s on the test of the CR reader, the IP plate, and everything associated with that which is challenging. Because if they don’t see it in practice, it’s hard to know or understand the whys behind like the physics of it.

Jennifer Callahan: Here’s a question for you. And this honestly just popped into my head as we were talking about like changing out cassettes. So at this point, I graduated 12 years ago, I graduated in 2012 from my radiography program. I remember within the Morales textbook that when you were learning the body part, you were also learning the size cassette that you’re supposed to be using. So, for instance, for a hand or a foot, you were using an eight-by-ten cassette. Is that information still in Merril’s textbooks? I haven’t looked at Merril’s textbook probably since I graduated. Sometimes every now Then might refer to it in my department if I need to, but I’m not looking at what’s in there. Honestly, they’re probably ten-year-old books at this point anyway.

Jennifer Clayton: They do talk about your air or your field size. I think that’s probably where the shift is going to happen. I think it’s probably because they’re just going to drop the air size, and it will be mainly driven by field size to just indicate your collimation field. But yeah, it’s crazy how our terminology shifts. Then textbooks take a long time to author, build, and create. So that’s what is tricky about teaching the technology is increasing so quickly. It’s outpacing the resources that we can use like textbooks. So there’s just a lot of supplemental that we’ve got to create on our own to help bridge that gap.

Jennifer Callahan: At this point, I mean, if you’re working with DR, you’re working with a 14 by 17 cassette or Imaging receptors all the time, as you said, you’re just looking at field size. You know, how large is your light field?

Jennifer Clayton: Or a 17 by 17 light is going to 17 by 17 too. That’s challenging because you know we’re big advocates for collimation. It makes it very easy to just open up that light field if you’ve got a detector of that size.

Jennifer Callahan: This episode is brought to you by xraytech.org, the Rad Tech Career Resource. If you’re considering a career in radiology, check out xraytech.org to get honest information on schools, degree options, career paths, and salaries. With the challenges of technology always changing, what other challenges do you feel like you or your students encounter within the program or maybe going out into the clinical sites?

Jennifer Clayton: I think that the program is tough, and I think that it’s been even more challenging post-Covid in the clinical environment, because of those poor techs out there, they’re staffing shortages. They just don’t have the same bandwidth as they used to. So students have to get up to speed a lot quicker. I think that that’s been a challenge. I think students take for granted that they’re actually in a hospital facility, and the hospital is pretty vulnerable. A patient doesn’t associate a student with the school. They associate them with whatever hospital organization. So they’re having students come in and practice with their patients. When they’re just running around trying to do their best and keep their head above water, it can be challenging right now.

Jennifer Callahan: As you said, technologists, who are there want to help. They want to teach. Well, some do. I feel like some days you just don’t have it in you to have that, as you said, bandwidth, that you’re there to do your work and you just don’t have the capacity for an extra question coming from someone. So it is it’s challenging the students that are coming out now. Do you find or have you received feedback from them in terms of job field, like easy to pick up a position, or are they having challenges in that realm at all?

Jennifer Clayton: You know, I’ll speak for our area in Oregon. They can pretty much go anywhere they want to for work. Historically when we would graduate, you’d have to work probably 3 or 4 years before Cross-modality training became available. Now they’ve already got offers before they graduate to go to the cath lab, to go into MRI, to go into CT. So that’s been an interesting shift for us as educators because there is this dynamic of you going through x-ray school and the techs are sharing their skill set with you. So it can be really off-putting to techs if you’re treating X-rays like a stepping stone to getting into an advanced modality. But you also can’t fault students for wanting to increase their practice skills either. So it’s this tricky dynamic to coach them through those difficult dynamics. And also for us to respond as educators to it as well because back in the day, you would just take whatever per diem shifts you could until something full-time came open. And now there are sign-on bonuses. They’re day shift right out of the gate, and it’s just a whole different world. I think while it’s great for students, the shadow side of that is they don’t work those off shifts where they’re like have to be on their own, where they have to continue building that critical thinking process because it is like a skeleton crew. You have to do more individually to keep the team going. So I think that there is that downside is that they don’t spend that time in general x-ray where you’re always adapting to the patient more, which is different than the advanced modalities, where maybe the patient is in one position Then you’re acquiring your scans in a different way.

Jennifer Callahan: I think X-rays require a lot of critical thinking, especially if you’re working in a hospital. I should say I did want to go back to what you were talking about in Oregon and like coming out and the positions that are available. I was on the website earlier for the school and it showed what the median salary is for a technologist in the state of Oregon. It said $85,000. I thought to myself like, wow, that seems high. Then I clicked over then it said, like nationally. It went down to like $66,000. I feel like that sounds a little bit more like what I was thinking. But is the pay, I guess, grade that high in the state of Oregon for technologists?

Jennifer Clayton: It’s a pretty respectable wage. I mean, I think a lot of our students, we just had a group that graduated last month, and a lot of them their starting wage is between maybe $28 and $30 an hour. Then as they move into the advanced modalities their wages just keep going up from there. So, yeah, it’s a pretty good return on investment in their education.

Jennifer Callahan: As you proceed on from being an x-ray the other modalities do pay more. But I wasn’t sure if that was just for coming out as like a rad tech not for first years or for new grads. But I just was surprised by that number. But it makes sense now that you say with the additional modalities. So let’s talk about you though real fast. I mean, besides just the program, you’re still a practicing technologist.

Jennifer Clayton: I still do CT. I work for the same group that I trained with as a student. So actually it’s been almost 18 years and they’re so great. They just let me pop in per diem when I can pick shifts up over break or just maybe once a month to keep my skill set sharp. And I still just love interacting and meeting with patients. They’re like a second family to me, too. It’s just a great crew. So I’ve been doing that for about 18 years. I just discovered we were crunching the numbers when I worked last a couple of weeks ago, and I’m like, oh man, that’s crazy how fast time goes by.

Jennifer Callahan: I’m sure sometimes you have to work a weekend shift because you work Monday through Friday, you have 40 hours, probably more than that. Since you’re a program director, you might dread doing it, but then once you get there, you’re like, oh, I like this. Sometimes it’s just a nice change of scenery for a different type of work.

Jennifer Clayton: Exactly. I always joke with the people that I work with. You’re probably getting maybe 50, 75% of tech when I’m here. I’m not going to be as efficient. It’ll take me a little bit to get up to speed. But I just love it. I love connecting with the patients. Especially in CT, we’re seeing a lot of cancer patients, a lot of people that are really sick. Just to be able to be in that moment, to help them feel at home through the exam and just connect with them, I enjoy that piece.

Jennifer Callahan: I enjoy that portion of patient interaction, having conversations with them. People would say, why didn’t you become a nurse? I’m like, well, because I do like interacting with patients and I do like caring for them, but our time ends at some point.

Jennifer Clayton: I was listening to one of your other podcasts, and you talked about how it is a good field for introverts. When I talk about the program, I note that all the time because if you have a crabby. Cakes, you’re only with them for 15 or 20 minutes. There isn’t anything that you can’t get through. Then if you have an exam that just didn’t go well, you have a brand new fresh start. Like the next patient has no idea what happened with that last patient. I think that what’s cool about our field, is we get to begin again with every patient.

Jennifer Callahan: It’s not going to be the same thing most likely. Chest X-rays are basically your bread and butter for X-rays. But you might have a scapular walk through the door and you might be like, yeah, that’s exciting. I haven’t done a scapular in like a month.

Jennifer Clayton: Or you pull up that chest x-ray in their 97 and you’re like, oh, in your mind you’re like, oh man, what is this going to look like? They just come in dancing their way into the x-ray room and you’re just like, where did this little thing come from? You just have no idea.

Jennifer Callahan: I have to say, some hundred-year-old patients that I’ve come across in the past couple of years, like, why do you seem like you’re 70? That’s great. Please tell me what your secrets are like. I need to know.

Jennifer Clayton: You’re moving better than I am. What’s going on?

Jennifer Callahan: Do you have moving forward with the program for the future? What do you see in terms of changes or I guess maybe I should say goals you have for the program going forward?

Jennifer Clayton: I wish we could take every student that comes in and we talk about this a lot in the program because there are so many shortages right now. We’re feeling a lot of pressure to take more students. But it also is this fine balance of quality over quantity, meaning we have an obligation to the students who start with us to make sure that they have the attention and that their needs are met to be successful. So it’s always having those conversations about how can we help address the shortages by taking on more students, but then how do we also serve the ones that we have so that they reach their goals in terms of program goals? I want to continue on to this idea that we’re building the next generation of leaders, That’s something that’s important in our program, is that the x-ray students see themselves as somebody who can contribute something right out of the gate, even as a student. So they start seeing themselves as advocates and being in these roles because otherwise, we have people making the decisions for us. So that’s something important to me. I’d like to continue to see how we can involve students in those advocacy efforts through the program.

Jennifer Callahan: It seems like you’ve enjoyed the progression of your career going from technologist. And you still do practice, which is great. Then the way that you’ve transitioned into education, that you’re pretty passionate about it. What is it about education that you feel so not groundbreaking or earth-shattering, but it just warms your heart? What would you suggest to people who are possibly thinking that they no longer want to work in the clinical field and have been toying with the idea of getting into education?

Jennifer Clayton: I think that’s a great question because obviously, the biggest barrier is the wage. You know, especially with the job market. Wages are high right now, and educators aren’t going to make as much compared to being a working technologist out in the field. But what I love about being an educator is that I’m part of somebody’s bigger story. And really all I’m. Doing is just sharing what I know, what I’ve learned, what my experience has been, and helping them to develop their own skill set, and just being that person that sees something in them that they don’t yet see in themselves, and to help coach them and all different facets, not just teaching them how is an x-ray photon produced, but also being there when they’re like, Jen, I am struggling. I don’t feel like I’m a good enough student. I don’t feel like I’m a good enough mom. Right? I don’t feel like I’m a good enough partner when the students are being pulled in all of these directions, just reminding them that they can do it and that they just keep putting one foot in front of the other, that there’s this amazing profession waiting for them. In terms of what it does for my heart, it just makes me feel so proud to be involved in that part of their journey and just be that person that my instructors were for me to help me through the tough times, whether it’s with academics or just clinically a tough day, it’s real rewarding to be part of that process.

Jennifer Callahan: It’s great to see someone go from nothing to 100.

Jennifer Clayton: So quickly.

Jennifer Callahan: I know because some of these programs out there are only one year, and that baffles my mind. I went through a two-year program and I felt like two years wasn’t even enough. Just because it’s so much information. I can’t even imagine digesting all of that in one year. But yes, two years again, talking about time seems like really long, but two years is not that long.

Jennifer Clayton: Then you go on to see where the students take their education. I mean, they’ll go into different modalities or they’ll go into leadership and you stay connected with these folks they’ll tell you when they’re getting married or when they’re having a family. And being part of that long-lasting connection is a big bonus to doing this work.

Jennifer Callahan: Do you find that the different educators that you have worked with, do they come into the field as progressed from being in the clinical role Then going into education then just stayed in education and maybe did what you do where here or there? They might do clinical work, but do you find that they mostly like maybe it’s the last portion of their career, not to say the last portion because someone’s old, like they transition to there That’s where they stay.

Jennifer Clayton: I think that that sounds true. When I think about the folks that I work with, and we collaborate with a lot of the other programs in Oregon, too. So it’s nice to tap into what’s their experience. And I feel once folks go into education, they’ll typically stay there and they might continue to do per diem work, but it just seems like a good spot. Long time to land in.

Jennifer Callahan: Thank you so much for taking the time with me this afternoon or the morning. It’s an Oregon in the morning there. I’m in the afternoon. But I do appreciate your time today. I enjoyed our conversation about the progression of technology with students moving from when we were in our clinical setting to now, and to think of education as a good transition point. If you are looking to move on from being in a clinical role, which helps me personally I was sharing with Jennifer that I feel like I’m in this spot where I need to do something that I enjoy working, clinical work, but there’s something else I feel like there’s in me that I need to do. So we were having a conversation before I started recording that. It’s a good transition point. It’s a good idea to look at. So thank you Jennifer so much. I appreciate it.

Jennifer Clayton: Thank you. It was a privilege to be able to share this time with you today. I appreciate the invitation.

Jennifer Callahan: My pleasure. Everybody, Jennifer Clayton meeting with us from Linn-Benton Community College. I’m Jen Callahan and I will see you guys next week. You’ve been watching the Skeleton Crew, brought to you by xraytech.org. In the next episode, join us to explore the present and the future of the Rad Tech career and the field of radiology.